Julie Dobson: Communications Leader, Acclaimed Philanthropist…and Survivor
By Monika Samtani and Emily Montague
We live in a world that runs on communication. Whether it’s two people sharing information about their day, two communities exchanging stories about the ways they see the world, or two global corporations working together to analyze billions of dollars worth of data, everything we do and all we accomplish is built upon a foundation of effective communication.
Julie Dobson has occupied the world of communications technology since the start of her career in 1980. She started as an account representative in the Bell System/AT&T monopoly, and moved through a variety of assignments in her eighteen year career there, ending as President of Bell Atlantic Mobile’s New York operation. She left for a start up here in the Washington area, TeleCorp PCS, where, together with the two co founders, she raised debt and equity financing of over $1.2 billion and built a company that when sold to AT&T in 2002 had over 3000 employees, a million customers, 175 company owned retail locations, and revenues in excess of $780 million.
Julie has driven several major acquisitions, including leading the merger integration team for Bell Atlantic/Nynex (what became Verizon), the acquisition of TriTel which doubled TeleCorp’s size in 2000, and then the $5.6 billion sale of Telecorp to AT&T in 2002. Her achievements and depth of experience are, in our humble opinion, nothing less than astonishing.
The Fem Word’s Monika Samtani and Emily Montague were honored with an opportunity to chat with Julie about her background, career, and perspectives on life. We gained plenty of insight on communications, finance, and career from her, but we also enjoyed learning from Julie’s personal experiences and story. We hope you enjoy this interview as much as we enjoyed hosting it!
Julie Dobson with her husband (left), son Elliot (second from left), and daughter Lindsey Thaker (right), Kennedy Center, Washington, DC, 2018
Q: There’s a lot we want to talk about, but first we just wanted to thank you for being here with us today. Considering how many roles you fill, I imagine your schedule must be very full…which brings us right to question number one!
Were you always the kind of woman who needed to have a lot of fires burning at the same time, so to speak? Specifically, were you a really active kid who did a lot of different activities, or did that kind of energy build up later on, when you began your career?
A: I truly want to thank the Fem Word for inviting me here today. I have been so impressed with what the Fem Word has accomplished in such a short period of time and applaud you for your focus on leadership and moving women forward!
As to my early days, I did have my hands in everything. You could say I was trouble from childhood on, [whether it was] experimenting with fire in the backyard and burning down our hedges at age six, to defying my parents’ choices in boyfriends and in college selection! I was interested in everything in those days, competitively swimming from age five through college, chairing clubs, and working many part time jobs – including cashiering at Kmart, waitressing in restaurants and at the Pittsburgh airport (my first union job!), and babysitting whenever [I was] free. When not at swim practice, I played tennis, skied, and was the high school ping pong champion!
Q: WOW, that’s impressive! The average person would get tired just thinking about all of that! Let’s look more closely at the earlier years you mentioned.
As any mom can tell you, the years between ages 10-18 or so are absolutely pivotal for a girl. She’s building an identity of her own, deciding what her passions are, and at the same time she’s starting to really feel the impact of all the messages society is sending her about her potential in life.
What were those years like for you? What were the messages you were getting from the world around you, and how did they match up with your aspirations and interests?
A: I grew up in a very exciting time, when opportunities were truly opening up for women. And my mother was an incredible role model, championing women’s rights as a nurse running the local Planned Parenthood. My parents were passionate about education and allowed us to choose our own paths. Their expectations were no different for their daughters [than for their sons], and they were high.
My older brother went to Dartmouth, and in 1973 they opened their doors to women for the first time. They recruited me, but I wanted something different. My high school college counselor said that I couldn’t get into the College of William and Mary, as their out of state acceptance rate was very low, and I was determined to prove her wrong.
Once at William and Mary, as through my teen years, I worked many part time jobs, participated in athletics, sorority life and – last but not least – I studied. I was intent on applying to medical school, but was selected for an internship that changed my career path altogether. I found my home in [the] business [school], and went to the University of Pittsburgh for an MBA after graduation. I was fiercely independent, choosing not to live at home after college and to self- finance my MBA through scholarship and work. Female MBAs in 1980 were in great demand, and I chose an offer from Bell of Pennsylvania for the sole reason that it paid the most of the five offers I received.
The Bell System offered incredible training at the time, with a full sixteen weeks dedicated to learning communications technologies and how to sell them. I didn’t think I could ever be a salesperson but ended up loving the job, developing customer relationships and solving problems. I now encourage all young graduates to consider corporate sales, as it is the best place to learn the entire business, from product to profitability and everything in between.
Julie and her mom on top of Mt. Washington
“I grew up in a very exciting time, when opportunities were truly opening up for women. And my mother was an incredible role model, championing women’s rights....My parents were passionate about education and allowed us to choose our own paths. Their expectations were no different for their daughters [than for their sons], and they were high. ”
Q: It’s clear that you were ready to beat expectations – and you were ready to beat them into the ground. A lot of things have changed in the past decade, but that kind of drive still makes a huge difference when it comes to success. It’s also something that gets developed and refined by the people we communicate with on a daily or weekly basis, whether it’s family, friends, or colleagues in our field.
The Millennial and Gen Z generations grew up surrounded by communications technology. Digital communication was, and is, literally central to their lives and experiences, for better or worse. That influence is built up on a foundation engineered by the telecom industry and its leaders.
From your point of view–which provides a pretty extensive perspective, considering your impact on the field–how will this “age of communications” affect young people over the next decade or two?
A: The advances in communication technology in our lifetimes are nothing short of amazing. I’ve tried to explain to my children that when I went away to college, my father would go into his office and call me once a week on his WATS line (Wide Area Telecommunications Service), because long distance cost too much.
Today, we can reach anyone at any time, and in some ways have lost a tremendous amount of privacy and independence. I had to solve my own problems [without] twenty-four-hour resources at my [disposal], and I worry that we have taken much of the power of thinking away from our kids, [whether it’s through] calculators and computers [or] electronic gaming and phone technology.
We have to make sure we help this generation use technology to widen their ability to solve problems, not narrow it. Digitizing the world opens [our] eyes to global issues and opportunities, and I believe this next generation will find ways to use technology to improve lives everywhere.
Q: How do you think this era of 24/7 availability and instant messaging will change the way people think? Especially the way women think, as they have traditionally been considered the better and more frequent communicators in our society?
A: I believe instant access has brought both advantages and disadvantages to the way we think. We know so much more about what everyone is experiencing, not just our kids, but our parents, our relatives, and our friends and neighbors. We’ve learned where to find resources, how to do things [via] online, step-by-step instructions, and developed quite a fear of missing out!
As women, [...] I believe many of us fall victim to overscheduling and trying to “have it all.” And with that comes stress, loss of privacy, and constant competition. If that weren’t enough, we become what we absolutely fear the most – bad examples to our children, [who] depend on our phones and our 24-hour access [to them]. I know I have to consciously shut off my phone to stop looking at it and be present. And I admit to not doing it often enough in a day.
We can juggle careers, kids, spouses, meals, activities, and our own friendships in the swoop of an app. What we want for the next generation has to start with us demonstrating independent thinking (without worrying about what’s on Facebook), taking quality time to share experiences, and using technology to improve [our] quality of life, not to replace living and learning.
Q: That emphasis on the act of living is so important, because life really is more of a verb than a noun. And your point about communication being both an asset and a liability when it comes to enhancing that act of living brings about another, related question.
How has communication itself changed due to advances in the telecom realm? Is there a gendered aspect to those changes, or is it actually enhancing equality in your eyes?
A: One of the positives of the advances in technology and the digitization of everything is that the availability of data can be used to enhance equality.
I emphasize can, as equality will only come with intention.
We have to push to develop equal representation, not just for women but all minorities. I love that with technology we can analyze data easily, point out inequalities, and work on strategies to improve [the situation]. It isn’t just a numbers game, however. We have to provide women and minorities [with] the same tools to develop and grow, and we have to provide existing leadership training on accepting different styles and means of effective communication.
It really is ridiculous that in 2022 a woman who has aspirations to lead can be viewed as aggressive and overbearing, still “not in her place.” We have to change and encourage ambition [in women and minorities] and populate our leadership teams [so that they] better represent our workforces. Women [have] proven themselves as family leaders, as educators, and can be wildly successful as breadwinners as well.
Q: That innate drive you demonstrate so beautifully through your life comes through when you share that demand for change, and that’s the kind of passion it’ll take to really make progress a reality.
Let’s switch back to a more personal level for a minute. You came onto the scene at a very pivotal moment in women’s history. The 80s and 90s were the decades when (as you mentioned earlier) women were entering the workforce in a major way. With that, there was this sense that a “real” woman had to “have it all” when it came to family, career, and her own ambitions.
Reality, of course, isn’t always on board with that vision. What were the internal struggles you faced when building your career and your first business as a woman–especially in such a male-dominated field? How did you navigate it well enough to achieve the success that you have had?
A: Wow, that question packs a punch and brings back a host of memories.
First, I have to say that I didn’t think a lot about “having it all.” I was always focused on job satisfaction. I viewed each new opportunity as a chance to learn and as a challenge, and plenty of challenges were placed in my way.
I have stories to tell...from a boss who wanted to go to lunch and then to a hotel room, making inappropriate advances and threatening my career, to another who told me I would get my next promotion if I lost ten pounds (no matter that he himself was overweight), to having a CEO announce my second pregnancy in the middle of a merger negotiation [because] he thought it was funny.
I was the senior leader of a delegation to Japan, in search of purchasing new digital switching technology for Bell Atlantic, and the Japanese wanted only to meet with the two male vice presidents who worked for me – [that’s] so, so hard to imagine, isn’t it?
What I know about “having it all” is that working hard, focusing on results, and treating people fairly took care of the career part for me. Finding love and luckily having no problems having children happened for me later in life, having met my husband when he tried to sell his software to me. I never bought the software, but I gained a lifelong partner and best friend. He moved his business from LA to Philadelphia, and adapted to the cold weather. His flexibility made it possible for me to take chances with my career – he has been amazing and supportive.
Q: Having a supportive, loving partner like that is an incredible asset for any woman, especially those of us who are ambitious by nature and who find it hard to settle down in the traditional sense. It’s also really important when you’re a woman whom others may attempt to put down, who may want you to feel “out of place.”
At numerous points in your career, and this probably still happens today, you’ve had to occupy the role of the “only woman in the room,” sometimes literally. Luckily for girls and young women today, this experience has become rarer for us. But understanding how that felt, and knowing that it was commonplace for women just a short time ago, is crucial as we continue to fight for equality.
How would you describe the feeling of being the only woman in a room full of men, most of them colleagues or executives who could, and did, have a real impact on your career and life goals?
A: It’s interesting as I look back on my career, as I was often the only woman in the room. I never discounted the fact that I had some opportunities because I was female, and I worked in corporate environments that understood diversity was important.
Having said that, it also meant I had to be good. I had to be more prepared than my male counterparts, I had to study harder and work longer, and I had to develop relationships that would support me and give me frank feedback. I found a mentor in my first year, a vice president who watched over me, coached me, and provided me [with] visibility. I encourage all my peers to network. Since women today still aren’t included in the [traditional] golf outings where executives network and communicate, you have to find ways to have similar time – lunch, coffee, etcetera. Whatever it is, make an effort.
Women also have to work hard to sponsor other women. It’s sad that even today, you still see women tearing down other women instead of building them up. I measured myself on how many people who worked for me got promoted – and hoped that someday I might work for someone who I developed earlier in their career.
Q: That kind of humility isn’t easy to develop, but you seem to be one of the lucky few who has it as an innate quality. It’s a vital part of leadership, based on what we’ve learned here at TFW through our own leaders and guests. On the flip side of humility, though, there’s also self-doubt.
Were there times when you felt particularly invalidated, patronized, or discounted because of your gender? How did you handle those situations then, and how would you handle them now?
A: I mentioned in an earlier question having a boss who told me I would get promoted if I lost ten pounds. This truly took place in a performance review, about ten years into my career. I was a middle level manager, and knew I was doing good work, so I refused to just sit quietly.
I looked at the man, and told him he would be wise to retract that statement. I then asked him if anyone had ever told him in a performance review that he would get promoted if he had more hair.
It was such a ridiculous comment, and he honestly thought he was doing me a favor. He refused to take it out of my review. I vowed then that leaders like him had to move out of the way, and worked with his boss to get him out of a role that included managing people.
Q: Progress is rarely a straightforward path, and it certainly hasn’t been one for women. Your experience is far from singular, but your response is extremely important. There have been so many back-and-forth moments for us as a demographic, and women who are now at the peak of their careers and their industries have weathered a lot of those ups and downs on a very personal level.
We also have that responsibility you mentioned earlier, the duty to raise one another up. That begins with raising yourself up, most of the time.
Whether it’s been politics, people’s personal views, or general cultural trends, how have you balanced your ambitions and sense of self-worth when society as a whole seemed to be challenging your right to have either?
Have you consciously noticed those moments, or have they been more of an undercurrent for you?
A: Throughout my career, including my work today serving on corporate boards, I have been very conscious of the power of expression and how it can be interpreted.
Early in my career rise, I had a female trail blazing boss, the first 6th level female in the Bell System, who felt the need to send me to a personal shopper at Saks and have me dress the way she saw executive women. She viewed my laugh as a negative, and advised me to never have drinks with my peers after work. I failed to heed that advice!
You’ve already heard some stories of men’s views of our roles from me. I have to say I learned very quickly the role of the first impression, as they are indelible. I’ve seen women in the boardroom disregarded for expressing political leanings that male counterparts dislike, and still today have never seen a man called to task over the same issue – of course [they] usually have a view on the other side of the fence.
As a result, I must say I keep my work emphasis on things we control [and] that impact the results of the business. Emotion is absolutely okay, [as is] passion – but a sensitivity to your environment is equally important.
Fortis CEO Barry Perry with Board of Directors (Julie Dobson, third from right in light blue suit), ringing the bell at the Toronto Stock Exchange, February 2019
Q: Seeing powerful, accomplished women like you is incredibly important for girls and women all over the world. But with that, especially at a time when narratives are constantly shifting and we’re pretty much bombarded with other people’s opinions 24/7, there may be a tendency for us to take our rights and potential for granted.
Reflecting on the “big picture” of your career and your life’s path, what are some of the personal struggles, victories, and achievements that make you feel grateful for all the things our gender as a whole has fought for and won?
A: I am personally grateful to those that opened doors I never could have imagined.
I had a Dean of Students at the College of William and Mary talk me into taking an internship opportunity, including a scholarship for an MBA, at a time that I couldn’t spell accounting or business. He knew the opportunities for women in leadership were boundless and sent me on a path to participate – I’ll never forget him looking at me and saying “if you hate it, you can still apply to med school!”
I am so happy I got to have an international career, allowing me to work in Europe, Asia, Australia, and New Zealand and understand the impact of culture on the workplace. Don’t look for anyone in your offices in Australia after 3pm, they are all out surfing!
And I feel so grateful that I could participate in a world of finance that typically wasn’t open to women. When we took TeleCorp PCS public, I had an equal role on the stage of presentations and rang the electronic bell at the NASDAQ – it felt great after three years of non-stop [work] building a business.
I will always wonder what I lost with my kids in their earliest years, as I traveled so much and missed so much of their first five years. But the hard work allowed me to stay home after selling the business and I did get involved, so much so that I was President of the PTA at their elementary school for two years!
My board work in the nineteen years since then has been incredibly rewarding. My first board seat was for a trust company in Philadelphia and I found participating in other industries fascinating. I was a Corporate Vice President for Bell Atlantic at the time, and loved bringing my experience to the world of financial management. I was then recruited to the board of PNM, a public company based in New Mexico about to face deregulation in the electric industry, and my experience on the telecommunications deregulation was an asset. From there I was recruited to technology company boards (Safeguard Scientifics and Radio Shack Corp), a mobile infrastructure board (LCCI), additional utilities (American Water), a GPS/fleet management company (Telogis), and currently serve on the boards of Fortis Inc and Sunrise Senior Living. I love challenging management teams and coaching executives.
In December of 2018, Julie was diagnosed with endometrial cancer. After sixteen weeks of radiation, then four months of chemotherapy, and the support of family and friends, she is now cancer free.
In December of 2018, I was diagnosed with endometrial cancer and faced my first ever personal health challenge. I was to spend the next year with surgery, sixteen weeks of radiation, and then four months of chemotherapy. With the support of family and friends, we chose the most aggressive path possible and am thrilled to report I am cancer free now. I had offered to my board chairs to resign so I could focus on my health, but they rejected my offer and as I look back it was a good thing to take my mind off the cancer with work at times. I was so blessed with people to drive me to radiation or sit with me after chemo and now so appreciate having such a great network. I lost a peer from one of my boards during that time - she and I would speak of our experiences and how we didn’t want to be known as “that woman with cancer”. I was so sad hers was too aggressive and she lost her battle - the world lost a great woman and my Fortis board lost a great strategic contributor, and I try to keep her memory alive as she was a great role model for women serving on boards.
Q: That balance is always a trade off, and it’s never easy. It’s also never right to judge a mother for her own compromises and way of striking that balance within her own family, so we applaud you for that!
We always finish our interviews with the same big question.
Julie, when was a time that you felt truly powerful?
A: My most powerful moment, or memory [of it], comes from the only woman in the room theme, and the need for intent [that I expressed earlier].
In one of my many corporate board experiences I had been the only female director for more than six years. We had added two directors since I had joined, both white men, and were now adding a third. The nominating committee, of which I was not a part, had called a meeting recommending a director candidate to the full board – another white man in his 70s.
I took a stand, announcing that the board could vote, and if a majority approved this addition I was resigning. I reasoned with the board that without intent to change, we could not make progress. It wasn’t personal, the candidate was qualified, but [he was] not special. And if the committee could not come up with any minority candidates then I felt it was time for me to leave.
Luckily it worked, the board deferred a vote until more candidates could be vetted, and we landed a female director four months later. You have to be willing to take a position, and it felt great to have an impact.
This interview is made possible by our partner Foumberg, Juneja, Rocher & Company (FJR), a Certified Public Accounting Firm licensed by the California State Board of Accountancy which allows The Fem Word to highlight women leaders.
The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this article belong solely to the interviewee, and do not necessarily reflect the position of The Fem Word organization. Any content provided by our interviewees are based on their opinions and are not intended to malign any religion, ethnic group, club, organization, company, individual or anyone or anything.